L
68% מהפרופיל הושלם
נראה לאחרונה לפני 4 שעות
Porn Lover
3385 ימים ב-xHamster
8.9K צפיות בפרופיל
443 מנויים
123 תגובות נשארו
מידע אישי
אני:
Loren, 40 גיל, גברים, הטרוסקסואלים/יות
מאת:
Beirut, לבנון
מחפש/ת:
אף אחד
שפות:
אנגלית, ערבית, צרפתית
השכלה:
סטודנט/ית לתואר שני
ילדים:
לא, אבל אולי רוצה כמה
דת:
אתאיסט
עישון:
באופן קבוע
אלכוהול:
מספר פעמים בשבוע
איך אני נראה
מוצא אתני:
מזרח תיכוני
מבנה גוף:
ממוצע
אורך שיער:
קצר
צבע שיער:
שחור
צבע עיניים:
אפור
גובה:
5 פיט 11 אינץ' (180 cm)
הצג עוד

אודותיי

I am here just to have fun and chat, preferably sex chat.
All girls are welcome from all ages and cultures.
Guys stop sending me.
תגובות
65
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 11 ימים
אל loren85 : You: "And btw don’t think for a while that you are strong.. you are very weak to do that."
I have no clue what you're referring to. "Weak"? In reference to what, exactly? Feedback and simple denial? If so, I'm supposedly "weak" for rejecting someone politely because THEY didn't read my profile or play by the rules, requirements and expectations? How so?
You: "you can’t stop writing.. cant stop arguing."
Your ignorance shines through again. Even though I literally told you yesterday that I was not arguing with you, you continue the blame game. To everyone else, it's clear cut. Just follow the history and timeline of events and of comments.
You: "you cant even understand that people sometimes don’t answer on purpose and for a reason.."
No, no...you have me sooo, sooo misunderstood! I completely understaand that probably better than anyone does, and I can respect it in certain measures!
If you're claiming "Pleading the Fifth" (even though that it probably doesn't apply to Lebanon), then I can appreciate and respect circumstances of one's self to withhold vital information, if there is something that will incriminate you of justices. And of what valuable information would you honestly be withholding from explaining to me why you single me out from at least three different folks on here who equally rejected you and voiced their rejection? You cannot answer that, knowing that if you did, you'd look foolish and would relay discrimination.
Also, let's be totally honest here, people don't generally have valid reason of why they purposely don't answer other people on here, aside of the blatant fact that society is out of control, many people are genuinely rude, ignorant, boast massive egos, have terrible behavior, have awful personalities, have horrible interaction skills and so on. The era of "ghosting" has destroyed much of what communities like these were originally based upon, including the whole "blocking" bullshit, terrible writing/communication skills and such. I'm willing to bet that 99% of those who "ghost" other people and refuse to respond are those who are merely, ignorant, rude, have terrible communication skills, boast massive egos, etc... . It's probably the one-percenters or less who actually probably have valid reasons to withhold answering certain things (e.g.: maybe discreetly married people, people who have issues with the law, etc...). It's not petty shit like I'm speaking of, like "why are you singling me out from every other person who rejects you?". Get a clue!
השב התגובה המקורית
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 11 ימים
אל loren85 : You: "im really sad for you.. and i wish you to get better soon.."
And that's the irony here. You, your issues, your upbringing and the society in which you exist in Lebanon is drastically different from mine in the US. In your mind, you've been conditioned to think that I'm the issue, even though it's blatantly obvious to so many females and of your rejectors that YOU are the issue here. You're too dense to comprehend that, even though it's baked directly into your comments, reactions and decisions. It's YOU whom I feel sorry for. You can't get better, because your society and social environment has programmed and conditioned you too far already to revert into what westerners would consider "appropriate", "interesting", "respectful", "mannered", "logical" and "attractive". You'll never get i because you don't live where I do to see those drastic differences, hence, why I don't speak to anyone from Lebanon and the lists of outlined countries on my profile, as well.
You: "for me the case is closed (weeks ago).."
And this is precisely what I mean about illogical mentality. If you closed the case weeks ago between us, then why have you rehashed it and begun to start something all over again with me???? Make sense, will ya!! For me to leave a rejection note on your profile did NOT mean that I opened the case back up; nor does it mean I want to converse with you; nor does it mean that I'm arguing. I quietly left my note on your wall (as promised on my profile description, mind you) and quietly exited without saying a peep to you.
You: go do whatever you want.. ciao"
As I said yesterday, I do...and did. End of story. Bye.
השב התגובה המקורית
loren85 מארח לפני 12 ימים
אל Rochblue : And btw don’t think for a while that you are strong.. you are very weak to do that.. you can’t stop writing.. cant stop arguing.. you cant even understand that people sometimes don’t answer on purpose and for a reason..
im really sad for you.. and i wish you to get better soon..

for me the case is closed (weeks ago)..
go do whatever you want.. ciao
השב התגובה המקורית
loren85 מארח לפני 12 ימים
אל Rochblue : Write as much as you want.. and wherever you want.. im not interested to read your blablabla
השב התגובה המקורית
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 12 ימים
אל loren85 : Also, the only "game" anyone made this, was yourself. Again, why single me out, when everyone else who had rejected you just as equally remained unscathed? You cannot answer that truthfully, because if you did, it would prove the games being played are of your own.

Oh, YOU are fed up?????? Wait, what????? Oh, but forget the valid fact that I sat here minding my own business and with a detailed profile that you failed to read, then overrode it and irrelevantly 'friend requested' me, then had to invest my time/effort composing POLITE and kind messages (paragraphs of them) in a simple effort to give you a fair chance (no other real woman ever would!) and to determine if you have any RELEVANCE, per what my profile explains to you (a very simple question that needlessly gets prolonged for two entire days). Then when I leave feedback, it gets deleted 3 or 4 times in a row for no reason. Then you open up this whole fiasco that lasts for another few more days. All for what, exactly??? Remind me again whose the one who should be fed up?????? You're a complete nitwit if you cannot see that I'm the one whose fed up! You should be mad at yourself that you just didn't stop and move on at the point of closure and apology in PM back on 6/30/25. Be fed up at your own self, not me! I'm the one whose fed up!
השב התגובה המקורית
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 12 ימים
אל loren85 : You: "im out of your game.. and i hope you wont write again cuz im fed up with this nonsense conversation.. "
And who begun this "nonsense conversation"? Wasn't me! You act like you're somehow exempt from feedback/testimony for your behavioral issues, just because you wave a mag!c wand and say "I'm out of your game". Ironic, if you didn't want to be inclusive of feedback/testimony, then you should have read consequence of poor behavior on my profile and you should also take a good hard look at the community you exist in and what ALL women are unanimously saying about men like yourself.  
השב התגובה המקורית
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 12 ימים
אל loren85 : You: "Ok.. and now im telling you that i am not interested to have a discussion with you"
Right, I'm in no way interested in a discussion with you, either. What makes you think I was??
You: "and you keep on writing and writing.. i closed the conversation at least 7 times.. and you still want to argue"
Wait, who is arguing with who here???? I quietly left feedback and moved on without a peep said to you. You're the one who opened up this entire fiasco with me and begun The arguments it turned out to be. Review the timeline and get your facts straight.
You: "im not answering you anymore."
And when did you actually answer me, regardless??? Ignorance is bliss, eh? I still haven't received answers to the extremely simple I had asked you probably 5 or 6 times now. Laughable mentality and cracked logic. Precisely why idiots from countries such as Lebanon are on my shit list in the first place. I've literally never had a single, relevant and level-headed conversation with a single person from any of my listed avoided countries. These numbers speak louder than words and this fiasco with you proves that.
You: "and do whatever you want to do according to your “standards” and consider me as you like.."
I will...and did. You're a proven idiot. That cannot be changed or reverted. You turn simplicity into a major shit storm. If you'd spend a fraction of your time listening, reading, comprehending, learning from women on here and cooperating like a responsible and respectful adult, then you should have no problem at all gaining interests of females. Ironic that you have a profile with details that YOU expect others to read and comply with, when you yourself isn't even reading, comprehending or respecting profiles of others on here. Hypocrisy much!
השב התגובה המקורית
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 12 ימים
אל loren85 : You: "im out of your game.. and i hope you wont write again cuz im fed up with this nonsense conversation.. "
And who begun this "nonsense conversation"? Wasn't me! You act like you're somehow exempt from feedback/testimony for your behavioral issues, just because you wave a magic wand and say "I'm out of your game". Ironic, if you didn't want to be inclusive of feedback/testimony, then you should have read consequence of poor behavior on my profile and you should also take a good hard look at the community you exist in and what ALL women are unanimously saying about men like yourself. 
השב התגובה המקורית
vickylovevicky
vickylovevicky לפני 13 ימים
אל loren85 : kif elak 5le2 tred hhhh
השב התגובה המקורית
loren85 מארח לפני 13 ימים
אל Rochblue : Ok.. and now im telling you that i am not interested to have a discussion with you.. and you keep on writing and writing.. i closed the conversation at least 7 times.. and you still want to argue.. im not answering you anymore.. and do whatever you want to do according to your “standards” and consider me as you like.. im out of your game.. and i hope you wont write again cuz im fed up with this nonsense conversation.. 
השב התגובה המקורית
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 13 ימים
אל loren85 : You: "you can complain to the site for not showing these details on the mobile version.."
I complain about the site's limitation to that feature via mobile. But that's only half the problem. Being that you seem to previously understand in advance that a desktop mode allows you to access full profiles, then I can only fault the site to an extent, as it's honestly YOUR responsibility to access and read entire profiles.
השב התגובה המקורית
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 13 ימים
אל loren85 : You: "...and btw most of the profiles on the site don’t have proper and detailed intro.."
That's not my fault, is it? It's YOUR responsibility to read ALL profiles PRIOR to contacting people and ONLY if what you read is in accord your RELEVANT purpose and intent.
השב התגובה המקורית
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 13 ימים
אל loren85 : You: "now about your not answered question.. its been four times you ask it and i dont answer it.. because it is irrelevant for me.. its like you ask someone why you didnt like me.. what should be the answer?"
There's that quirky sense of overseas mentality and logic creeping through again. Wrong! If it was "irrelevant", would I be asking you a question in the first place? Geesh! You have no concept of critical thinking. There IS a RELEVANT point to be made by repeatedly asking you the question. Why? Because there was an obvious pattern of discrimination at play. Why is it that when other members on here reject you for friend requests, you leave their comments up and don't say a peep to them, yet when I leave the same rejection feedback notice, mine are repeatedly deleted and this huge fiasco then breaks out? Why, oh why??? There is validity in my question. You're not answering it, because if you did, you couldn't give me a truthful answer that wouldn't make you look bad.  
השב התגובה המקורית
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 13 ימים
אל loren85 : You: "If i were at your place i would just deny the request and point à la ligne.. but no.. you decided to go make a daily tour and give lessons to people.. seems it gives some satisfaction i dont know.."
Wrong again! I'm not here to give lessons and I truly dislike having to do so. Isn't the entire point of my profile outlined to relay this to you???? Also, you're looking at this matter through the lens of you, as a male. How many friend invites do you get a day?? Maybe one, at best?? Okay, big deal if you deny the request and move on. As a woman, we get 6, 10, a dozen, two dozen requests at times, per day. Do you have any such concept of what it's like being a woman on this site???? Do you have any idea of the frustrations and friction that creates??? I'm not here to babysit gown men. I invite you to switch accounts for a week. I think if you did, you'd have a completely different sense of appreciation for what I'm talking about. 'Nuff said.
You: "and btw its you who is wasting your time.. and my time btw.. not me.. by doing this.."
Who is wasting whose time here??? Is it the woman who leaves feedback and peacefully heads off O̲R̲ is it the guy who keeps erasing feedback and creating a huge stink with me over the repercussions of it all?? If you actually utilized as much time LISTENING, READING and basic COMPREHENSION as you did ignoring, dodging or repeatedly sending illogical notes to me, then we'd have this resolved long ago. Do you think it's reasonable for me to ask you the very same question in excess of four times now and still not get a direct answer? And yet this is the entire reason why these comments still sustain. You seem clueless! The sooner you answer, the sooner there's a resolve, the less time/effort is utilized and the sooner we're both on our way. What don't you understand about two-way communication and the flow of resolve?
You: "PS: i adore your loyal adience that jump on the profiles behind you and like your comments.. its really lovely"
More PA sarcastic comments, I see. And yes, I do have an audience on here. You don't think I'm speaking with other friends behind the scenes or following things as they unfold? What exactly do you think "community" is, "friendship" is, "peers" are, what "social media" is or what "feedback/testimony/accountability" means? Again, you're clueless...partly due to the fact that you have no concept what it's like being on a female's end of the chat versus yours.
השב התגובה המקורית
loren85 מארח לפני 13 ימים
אל Rochblue : Again and again allowing yourself to give me lessons.. I apologized for not reading your profile from the first message.. and i explained the reason.. and btw most of the profiles on the site don’t have proper and detailed intro..
plus, you can complain to the site for not showing these details on the mobile version..
now about your not answered question.. its been four times you ask it and i dont answer it.. because it is irrelevant for me.. its like you ask someone why you didnt like me.. what should be the answer?
If i were at your place i would just deny the request and point à la ligne.. but no.. you decided to go make a daily tour and give lessons to people.. seems it gives some satisfaction i dont know..
and btw its you who is wasting your time.. and my time btw.. not me.. by doing this..

PS: i adore your loyal adience that jump on the profiles behind you and like your comments.. its really lovely
השב התגובה המקורית
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 13 ימים
אל loren85 : You: "I will answer for one reason..."
Gee, how mature of you. There has to be "one reason" you show decency to reply back to someone? You'd think that an ADULT on an ADULT site should have responsible qualities, by default.
You: "...cuz you think that im afraid or ashamed"
I never once said or thought that you were"afraid" or "ashamed" to reply back. What I DID say is that you have P.A. behavioral issues. And what I "thought" is that people who are not willing to listen, reply or cooperate are cowards, unintelligent, buffoons and !mmature. It has nothing to do with you being afraid or ashamed. People who repeatedly try to hide things, look shady and come off like morons.
You: "Read carefuly my words..."
I have..and do/did! The irony here is that you keep going back and forth with me because it's YOU who is NOT "reading (or comprehending) MY words carefully". Again, what is the issue that you have with me specifically to target, versus the others who also rejected you and remain here unscathed? This is the third time I'm asking you this, to no avail.
השב התגובה המקורית
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 13 ימים
אל loren85 : You: "nothing has changed or will change in my life after your messages on my wall.. do you know why? Cuz my standards are different from your standards.. my community is different from yours.. im not sure if you get this point cuz people having a superiority in their attitude believe that they are the ones who are allowed to put the standards and all the planet should obey these standards.."
No, no! I COMPLETELY understand this. I TOTALLY understand your standards in other countries differ drastically from mine do. This is PRECISELY why I have a list of countries I completely avoid on my profile description, for anyone who lives within the list of those countries. With YOU just a quick "READ CAREFULLY MY WORDS" on my profile, you easily could have seen that Lebanon (your country) is on that list of people I avoid. This is for a valid reason (this argument between us is a perfect example of that proof)! Had you READ MY PROFILE DESCRIPTION PRIOR TO CONTACTING ME with a 'friend request', you easily could have bypassed me altogether (hence, the very reason we all have profiles in the first place). No, this isn't about "superiority"! It's about basic protocol, relevance and decency. It's ironic that on your own profile you say "Guys stop sending me" and expect no men to contact you. Why? Because that's not what you're into, seek, expect or offer on here to any other men. This does NOT mean you have some "superior attitude", as you are falsely trying to claim I am. What it means is that since you have no interest in other men, that your time and effort is being needlessly wasted by men who are contacting you, because they are NOT reading your profile FIRST, then annoying you with irrelevant contact. It's ironic that you practice the very same thing as I do on your profile, yet I'm negatively pinned as having a "superior attitude", and yet it's perfectly fine for you. Go figure that logic! Again, people in the listed countries of mine have extremely wacky sense of logic and mentality, as I keep proving to you. If you're going to speak and try to make a valid point, then don't have it littered with irony and contradictions.
השב התגובה המקורית
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 13 ימים
אל loren85 : You: "i repeat.. im not interested in your standards and your community.."
And that's fine. I don't disrespect that about you. The underlying issue is that you have tried to 'friend request' me. You can't have your cake and eat it, too! If you're in this community actively interacting with people by chatting and 'friend requests', then it's YOUR responsibility to make sure that YOU are in compliance to THEIR outlined details. You don't just tell me you have no interest in my standards/community, but then override all of my criteria and just magically expect friendship, interest and success. Like, what planet are you living on??? That like you applying for a job, getting a job offer, going through their training protocol of rules and expectations that you do NOT agree on, but then once on the job you expect the company to abide YOUR policies. Like, what?!?!? You came to them seeking a job. Therefore, it's YOUR responsibility to play by THEIR rules. Got it yet??? If you're not interested in my standards, you knew where the door was and my profile relayed the rules, expectations, requirements and consequences up front in black and white for you to bypss me altogether...so why did you have "interest" to 'friend request ' me then? I'll tell you why...because you were too lazy and ignorant to even bother reading my profile. You've made this mess what it is on your own accord. You should have let things go when you made good on your apology and closure in PM.
You: "im also not here to take lessons from people like you.. i advise you to take it easy my dear.."
More irony! You have zero interest to hear my advice; yet in the very same breath you blatantly try to give me advice that I'm supposed to take from someone who isn't 50/50. Too funny. Again, the goofy mentality and lack of logic always humors me!
You: " ...but if you cannot differentiate between annoying people and someone who talked to you politely in DM, and the conversation ended on good terms.. then you have to reconsider your mind and your standards.."
What are you talking about?? I told you several times already that you made a mistake initially and you did make good for it with an apology and proper closure. I commended you for that. So what is this entirely new fiasco all about??? Let it go. I've explained many times that other people also left you feedback of 'friend request' rejections and you didn't say a damn peep back to them or erase their comments (I screen shotted them as proof). So why delete my similar feedback comments several times? Why this entire rant with me specifically??? That's the part that I cannot understand at all. What problem do you specifically have with me, that you do NOT have with at least three other members who are also on your wall????????? Explain.
השב התגובה המקורית
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 13 ימים
אל loren85 : You: "Instead of being annoying to people in reation to people that annoyed you, just go find your inner peace.. live and let live.. you are not a judge and no one asked you to be.."
And explain how women on here find that "inner peace" when we sit here quietly minding our own business with detailed profiles that men like you never read, comprehend, obey or even care about....then they break all rules and annoy us to no end? Explain. And yes, we are all left to be "judges" on here, because this shitty site has no such moderation. When things become the Wild, Wild West, then women must take matters into our own hands and call people out for what they are. Why aren't we judges?? I have a profile that is very detailed and clear. For those who CHOOSE to override it, break rules, waste my time, take advantage of my kindness and so on, then YES, expect to be judged on your actions. That's precisely what happened and it's why you have no less that three other people also rejecting you. And by the fact that you have !mmaturely proven to have P.A. issues with your multiple "HAHAHAHHAHA", "You are so funny" and "You should do stand up comedy" replies, then YES, you are being judged by that behavior and relayed back to your peers. Nothin here is difficult. We have a universal standard of profiles. You have chosen to join an adult-based social media outlet and a community of people. Read profiles FIRST. If what you read does NOT jive with your intent, purposes, agreement, cooperation or anything else, then bypass that person altogether. It doesn't matter if you're in China, Lebanon, the US, the UK, Australia or anywhere at all. The system in universal. Read. Comprehend. Respect. Comply. Cooperate. You don't have to agree to someone's profile, but you do have to respect that we're all here for different reasons which are relayed on profiles. Your laziness and ignorance is no excuse for the fiasco that has broken out and the protocol couldn't be simpler.
השב התגובה המקורית
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 13 ימים
אל loren85 : Here's where you went completely wrong:
Your location: Lebanon.
My profile description: "If you are from India, Egypt, Bangladesh, Nepal, Turkey, Palestine, Lebanon, Qatar, Serbia, Algeria, Jordan, Tunisia, Pakistan, Morocco, Malaysia and Kazakhstan, then I have no interest in talking to you, since the majority of my issues on here stem from people who write to me from these countries.
So why initiate anything with me??
You: Automatically 'friend requested' me (a complete stranger).
My profile description: "I'm not a 'friend collector'. I don't just randomly add complete strangers to my 'Friends' list, because you aren't my friend. Friends are a privilege and it's something that's earned through ongoing and interesting conversations, having things in common, mutual bonding attraction, honesty, personality, trust, balance, cooperation, compliance, respect and any other key values which make friends, actual friends. If you actually want to make it to my 'Friends' list, then be prepared to earn that over the course of time. Otherwise, your request will simply be deleted."
So why initiate anything with me??
And on and on with examples. Food for thought. All the best.
השב התגובה המקורית
loren85 מארח לפני 13 ימים
I will answer for one reason.. cuz you think that im afraid or ashamed.. first am not ashamed of anything i did or said to you in DM or in public.. since I behaved in a respectful way.
Read carefuly my words.. nothing has changed or will change in my life after your messages on my wall.. do you know why? Cuz my standards are different from your standards.. my community is different from yours.. im not sure if you get this point cuz people having a superiority in their attitude believe that they are the ones who are allowed to put the standards and all the planet should obey these standards..
i repeat.. im not interested in your standards and your community.. im also not here to take lessons from people like you.. i advise you to take it easy my dear..
Ah yea.. its important to add something.. cuz you will explain my words now that im defending annoying people.. for sure im not.. i dont tolerate them too.. but if you cannot differentiate between annoying people and someone who talked to you politely in DM, and the conversation ended on good terms.. then you have to reconsider your mind and your standards..

last thing to say, and i hope its the last thing i write to you..
Instead of being annoying to people in reation to people that annoyed you, just go find your inner peace.. live and let live.. you are not a judge and no one asked you to be..
Take care and wish you the best 
השב
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 14 ימים
אל loren85 : No, it isn't me; it's YOU. Right, you had it correct from the start. You made a mistake and then made good for it. End of story. So why is there suddenly a new issue arising, the very moment I relay feedback of my rejection on here, just like everybody else does to you?? Like I said twice now, why are you singling me out from everyone else and making a big stink?? What is the underlying issue with me specifically versus the other people who rejected and left similar feedback?
You: "I had an impression that it was solved"
Correct. It was resolved. Move on.
You: "and then it is you jumping on my wall."
Correct. My profile specifically told you that PRIOR to you ever choosing to initiate anything with me. It says (quote): "Testimony will be left publicly for anyone who disrespects me, makes irrelevant contact, needlessly wastes my time, 'friend requests' me and such. Fair notice!"
And just for the record here: By the fact that you ask questions and then immediately tell me that you "can't take me serious" and "won't reply to my messages" means that YOU are the issue! Listening, reading and having a will to communicate properly, cooperate properly and learn from your mistakes is vital to your reputation and ultimately your level of success around here. Might it be quite obvious as to why you're getting so many turn-down's and earning poor reputation for yourself around here from the women of this community?
השב התגובה המקורית
loren85 מארח לפני 14 ימים
אל Rochblue : Im not the one who is having an issue.. it is you.. and I told you this in the DM.. The fact is I added you.. you denied.. and YOU texted me.. I replied.. I had an impression that it was solved.. and then it is you jumping on my wall.. and I still don’t understand what do you want exactly.. what do you want to prove? I cant take you serious anymore.. and im not replying to your messages anymore.. taker care dear
השב התגובה המקורית
Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 14 ימים
אל loren85 : More PA behavior.  You still didn't answer me.  What is the underlying issue you have with me, versus the rest of those who rejected you in the past?
השב התגובה המקורית
loren85 מארח לפני 14 ימים
אל Rochblue : You are so funny
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Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 14 ימים
אל loren85 : And again he incriminates himself against the screeshot blogs with PA behavior.  

The underlying issue here is what, exactly??
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loren85 מארח לפני 14 ימים
אל Rochblue : You should do stand up comedy
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loren85 מארח לפני 14 ימים
אל Rochblue : HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Rochblue
Rochblue לפני 14 ימים
אל loren85 : And this is the PA behavior you should all take note on. Off to the public screenshot blogs he goes.
השב התגובה המקורית
loren85 מארח לפני 14 ימים
אל Rochblue : HAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
השב התגובה המקורית
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